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Author Topic: Netbook of Unlawful ....
Kolvar
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posted October 30, 2001 02:52 AM     Profile for Kolvar   Author's Homepage   Email Kolvar     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Hey Oddjob, is that not something, you proposed 18 pages ago, already?
Posts: 245 | From: Bavaria | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Zelda Themelin
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posted October 30, 2001 03:02 AM     Profile for Zelda Themelin   Email Zelda Themelin     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Ah, I forgot that. So long ago.
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Tanilen
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posted October 31, 2001 01:30 AM     Profile for Tanilen   Author's Homepage   Email Tanilen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
is there any chance that someone will want to/be able to modify the lst files for pc gen to include our skills and class races in that program?

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Tanilen

In the Immortal words of Socrates:
"I drank what?"


Posts: 19 | From: | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Isawa_Sideshow
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posted October 31, 2001 09:47 AM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just want everyone to know that I _am_ working on the newest draft of the sex rules. I won't be able to get much done tonight, with Halloween activities and all, but I should be able to get some work done tomorrow, and may even have it ready for upload late tomorrow night!
Posts: 134 | From: Independence, MO, USA | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kolvar
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posted October 31, 2001 10:45 AM     Profile for Kolvar   Author's Homepage   Email Kolvar     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
And I was wondering, why no one wrote. I had totally forgotten about Halloween.

Just to make sure, some open issues are adressed in the next time:
Zelda: How about the Server?
Tanilen: I have included the spells after a little rewriting (mainly the header). Please check these spells. I would hate to hurt someones feelings by doing something wrong to their stuff.

Some Rules, we may think about:
- Insanity
- Disease
- Hygiene
- Bitch Rule


Posts: 245 | From: Bavaria | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kolvar
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posted October 31, 2001 12:42 PM     Profile for Kolvar   Author's Homepage   Email Kolvar     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
At the moment, it looks like the firm I am working at at the moment will close end of this year. Therefore (because I will start at a new job and will have less time):
PLEASE!!!! I want to see version 1.0 while I am involved!!!!

Posts: 245 | From: Bavaria | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Isawa_Sideshow
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posted October 31, 2001 01:37 PM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kolvar:
At the moment, it looks like the firm I am working at at the moment will close end of this year. Therefore (because I will start at a new job and will have less time):
PLEASE!!!! I want to see version 1.0 while I am involved!!!!

Working as fast as I can, Kovlar. We'll see what we can do to get this thing done well before 12/31. Sorry to hear about the closing, though.

Alright, folks, we've got our mission. Let's get on it!


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Ialdabode
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posted October 31, 2001 02:31 PM     Profile for Ialdabode   Email Ialdabode     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I've been kind of busy the past few days - no chance to pop in or work on those two domains. I WILL finish them though, promise

Oddjob, good point about the Alchemy thing. I didn't check them up against class skills totally - some of those skill requirements may need to come down a notch or three.

And since it seems like we have a new sex mechanic, the classes with SP skill requirement may need tweaking.

--------------------

I KNOW what you're thinking...


Posts: 254 | From: Psionic Handbook | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Riot Gear
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posted October 31, 2001 06:13 PM     Profile for Riot Gear   Email Riot Gear     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Especially the Tantric Master, since one of his main benefits is more SRP, which we no longer use.

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I love maces, I really do. That crunch noise is just SO satisfying, and the flying shards of bloody bone - Well, that's just icing on the cake.


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Zelda Themelin
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posted November 01, 2001 12:17 AM     Profile for Zelda Themelin   Email Zelda Themelin     Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kolvar:
And I was wondering, why no one wrote. I had totally forgotten about Halloween.


Just to make sure, some open issues are adressed in the next time:
Zelda: How about the Server?

Tanilen: I have included the spells after a little rewriting (mainly the header). Please check these spells. I would hate to hurt someones feelings by doing something wrong to their stuff.

Some Rules, we may think about:
- Insanity
- Disease
- Hygiene
- Bitch Rule


Yeh, I am booked for whole weekend.

Kolvar: Server thing is is open, because person, who arrenges it happens to be on holiday. Coming back next week. Seems like major time for holidays.

In case I happen to be home tomorrow, I finish couple of spells and send them to you.

Insanity, Disease and Hygiene are all needed.

I personally always failed to understand original Bitch Rule, IMO we should either completely re-write it, or skip it. If you like it though, let's keep it, I don't really mind that much.


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Kolvar
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posted November 01, 2001 10:12 AM     Profile for Kolvar   Author's Homepage   Email Kolvar     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
The bitch rule CAN be fun, if used as an option and not as a "must". But it is heavy on the women-characters.

Do we have a final version of the rules now? Did I miss something apart from that the last draft from Isawa looked very good?


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Isawa_Sideshow
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posted November 01, 2001 10:45 AM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kolvar:
The bitch rule CAN be fun, if used as an option and not as a "must". But it is heavy on the women-characters.

Do we have a final version of the rules now? Did I miss something apart from that the last draft from Isawa looked very good?


Working on it. I got a wee bit done last night after the festivities, but actually fell asleep at the laptop while working. Thank goodness for auto-saving! Anyway, here's where I am so far:

- Sexual Threshold dropped
- New conditions (Aroused, Horny, etc.) added
- Sexual Trick list expanded, most tricks from base document translated; many +2 bonuses reduced to +1

Getting ready to re-write the core sex rules with the new changes tonight. Still mulling over some base mechanics in my head, such as the reset-the-save-DC/lower-it-a-bit/keep-it-the-same debate. Other than that, though, I think I've got it all.

So look for a new version tonight!


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Riot Gear
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posted November 01, 2001 08:10 PM     Profile for Riot Gear   Email Riot Gear     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
once you complete that, I'll rewrite the sexualities for each species in to smaller, more compact forms.

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I love maces, I really do. That crunch noise is just SO satisfying, and the flying shards of bloody bone - Well, that's just icing on the cake.


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Tanilen
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posted November 01, 2001 10:43 PM     Profile for Tanilen   Author's Homepage   Email Tanilen     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Riot Gear:
once you complete that, I'll rewrite the sexualities for each species in to smaller, more compact forms.

RiotGear. . .when you go back into the species section, you may want to note relative Sexual Prowess levels for the races where needed, and any sex tricks that apply to them. . .for instance, succubi would have max number of skill ranks as thier hit die allow, while an ork, while not having many ranks, would have Powerful Lover.

Just a thought :-)

If you want help with this, once the next verison of the rules comes out, i can take your list of races and add my recomendations.

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-----------------------------------------------------------

Tanilen

In the Immortal words of Socrates:
"I drank what?"


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Isawa_Sideshow
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posted November 02, 2001 12:28 AM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Just to let you all know, I didn't get any chance to work on the docs tonight, so I'm running one day late. Will have those rules ready ASAP tomorrow.
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Kolvar
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posted November 02, 2001 02:48 AM     Profile for Kolvar   Author's Homepage   Email Kolvar     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Riot Gear: will you open a new thread, post it in the old or edit the old posts? (please, not the last version, it is a check to keep up with that)
Posts: 245 | From: Bavaria | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Isawa_Sideshow
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posted November 02, 2001 03:29 PM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
In lieu of having a new rules post, I'll just post the system changes that will be put to paper tonight.

Sex rules (Short short version)

- Sex is now made up of three stages.

1) Getting your partner Aroused
This is the simplest part, but can be the most important. Basically, it's an opposed check, with any of the following tests:

- Perform (several options here) vs. Will Save
- Bluff/Diplomacy vs. Will Save
- Charisma check vs. Will Save
- Sexual Prowess check vs. Will or Fort Save

If you win the check, your partner is Aroused. If not, try again. Male characters can generally make themselves aroused with little effort and can become Aroused at will with a free action. They can't become un-Aroused without a Will Save, though.

2. Getting your partner Peaked
Here's the fun part. Rules are basically the same as before -- you roll to raise your partner's save DC (starting at 10), they roll to resist. If they fail, they become Peaked. ALL characters must be Peaked before they can orgasm (except in cases of magic or the like).

3. Getting your partner off
And now, the climax. This works basically the same as part 2, with two changes:

- The DC resets, but to 15
- You must raise your partner's DC by at least +1 every turn. If not, they slip back to Aroused (although their DC does not reset).

---

Hrm. Y'know, the more I read this, the less I'm liking keeping track of the shifting save DCs, and the more I'm leaning to simple opposed rolls. However, opposed rolls still leave me cold because it seems like the action's over too fast, and there's not much that can be done to make long-lasting lovemaking sessions.

Must... find... happy medium!

So, what does everyone thing? Shifting DCs, opposed rolls, some combination of the two, or neither?

Gah. I hate having doubts like this at the last second.

[ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: Isawa_Sideshow ]


Posts: 134 | From: Independence, MO, USA | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Isawa_Sideshow
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posted November 02, 2001 05:52 PM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
A-ha!! I've got it! A combination of the two. Let me know how this sounds.

Okay, we keep the Sexual Prowess chart, but instead of the result raising the DC minute by minute, the result instead sets the DC. I might have to skew the chart a bit differently, but basically the partner's DC to resist would be 10 + the chart result.

This eases the bookkeeping, but also prevents what would happen between a 1st level character and a character with 20 ranks of Sexual Prowess if we went to straight opposed rolls.

Now, however, someone with a high Fort or Will save might never get to orgasm. So...

...we skew the Prowess chart so that a very high result (35+) has a appropriately high DC modifier. Also, we put penalties to the save for Aroused characters, and slightly larger ones for Peaked characters (as per Tanelin's/Jashin's conditions).

I -think- this will do it. More testing is needed.


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Riot Gear
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posted November 02, 2001 06:28 PM     Profile for Riot Gear   Email Riot Gear     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Doesn't sound half bad.... Not bad at all.

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I love maces, I really do. That crunch noise is just SO satisfying, and the flying shards of bloody bone - Well, that's just icing on the cake.


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Isawa_Sideshow
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posted November 02, 2001 11:35 PM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Okay, the final change. This one's a biggie, but just bear with me.

To resist increasing arousal or orgasm, it's no longer a Will save or a Fort save. It's a Wis check or a Con check. Now, I know this goes against the DMG's "a check is to acheive, a save is to resist" mentality, but here's why:

It's all about level disparity. With the Prowess chart, a lover with 20 ranks of Prowess still has to get work to get a 1st level character off. They don't have to work as hard, but they still have to work. A 1st level character, on the other hand, would have very little chance of ever getting a 20th level character off, because the 20th level character's saves are so high. Without increasing DCs, this is a serious problem. However, increasing/decreasing/resetting DCs are also a bookkeeping nightmare, and if roleplaying sex is as much work as combat, why bother, right?

So this evens the field. That 20th level Wizard may be a master mage, but in bed he's still just as human as a 1st level. That level 1 Expert streetwalker he hired can still get him off quite easily.

Now, some feats, on the other hand, would add bonuses to the roll. Endurance, of course. Great Fortitude, perhaps. Possibly even Iron Will, even if it isn't a Will save.

I thought about making it a Concentration check, since that would be a Con check for the untrained, but for the trained the problem is the same - if not WORSE - as the Will/Fort save problem.

So anyway. THat's the plan. Evens the field between high- and low-level characters. High level characters are better lovers, and have a better chance at resisting (can increase their Con over time, can take appropriate Feats and/or Sex Tricks) but are still human. After all, Babar the Barbarian may be a combat machine who can resist axes and clubs all day, but he could still be a minute-man in the sack.


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Kolvar
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posted November 03, 2001 07:39 AM     Profile for Kolvar   Author's Homepage   Email Kolvar     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
I am very much for evening the odds between high and low level characters in regard to sex.
But I think, you lost me somewhere (probably because I do not have the rules present at the moment).
But what about someone, who can go off easily but is kept from going of by skillfull play?

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Isawa_Sideshow
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posted November 03, 2001 07:56 AM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kolvar:
I am very much for evening the odds between high and low level characters in regard to sex.
But I think, you lost me somewhere (probably because I do not have the rules present at the moment).
But what about someone, who can go off easily but is kept from going of by skillfull play?

That would fall into the hands of their partner's Sex Tricks. Someone who was skilled at making sex last (with the Sexual Expertise and/or Teasing Lover sex trick) could easily bring someone to Peaked status, and then keep them there for several minutes.

I've almost got the document done -- I have most of the rules written, and just need to update the Tricks and Complications for the new system.


Posts: 134 | From: Independence, MO, USA | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged
Isawa_Sideshow
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posted November 03, 2001 12:03 PM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
Done at last!

The latest draft of the sex rules is ready for review and debate.

Sex Rules for the NboUCK

Read, review, and feel free to pick them apart. Just FYI, the goals of the new rules include:

- Keeping the rules more in line with basic d20 mechanics -- no extra statistics
- Ease of use - no excess bookkeeping
- Keeping characters of differing levels relatively equal in terms of resisting orgasm
- Incorporating Jashin's and Tanelin's sexual conditions, which were too good to pass up
- Incorporating Riot Gear's sexual tricks, which were key to keeping the system from being too bland

I don't think that this is going to be the final version of the rules -- as I said, I want these nitpicked -- but I'd hope that what's in this document is close to it. It feels right. It combines the bast bits of everyone's various systems. I think it's very very close to what we're looking for.


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Riot Gear
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posted November 03, 2001 12:41 PM     Profile for Riot Gear   Email Riot Gear     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
:: Slow, pleased clapping. ::

I think this is as good as it is going to get. I vote we stick with it and use it as the baseline for all further works.

--------------------

-------

I love maces, I really do. That crunch noise is just SO satisfying, and the flying shards of bloody bone - Well, that's just icing on the cake.


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Isawa_Sideshow
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posted November 03, 2001 01:06 PM     Profile for Isawa_Sideshow   Author's Homepage   Email Isawa_Sideshow     Send New Private Message   Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Riot Gear:
:: Slow, pleased clapping. ::

I think this is as good as it is going to get. I vote we stick with it and use it as the baseline for all further works.


I'm glad you approve!

However, while I feel that the base mechanics are very solid, we may want to tweak the various modifiers as we go along. We'll figure it out as we playtest it. Those are pretty minor fixes, though.

Well then, I guess next up is reviewing the PrCs and seeing how they fit with the rules set, eh?


Posts: 134 | From: Independence, MO, USA | Registered: Jan 2001  |  IP: Logged

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