quote:

---

Originally posted by Riot Gear:
One relatively clean thing we could use is equipment illustrations. If you have any of the class books, you'll notice a small set of pictures showing the various new pieces of equipment. When we make the new equipment, it would be convenient if someone would draw it.

---

I'd add, that pictures of prestige classes, some spells in action (see Tome&Blood for common ideas) and maybe some happy themed picture of party visiting brothel of some fantasy town.

Also, pictures for new races (if any).

Maybe our own iconic characters.

I'd say, that style could vary depending on theme from romantic to kinky, to mayble even perverse (but not in FATAL style).

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kolvar:
I think, half of the people reading here have a language barrier (I can say that for myself, especially for the thing we do here: you will not learn the words at school for that (g)). You will only learn from this experience (I know, that this sound dump, but what the heck)
Go to Temilen's site and take a look. I think, you will get a good impression, of what kind of domination he is talking (the kind, I will not write about here).

---

)) Yah, I know, well what can I say, I can always try. Here, I re-type my mail-address here:

zelda@olen.to

quote:

---

Originally posted by Riot Gear:
Quick Note:

Perhaps we could have a Sexual Prowess skill that works similarly to Perform. Each new rank you get a new "trick" but each trick is still just a skill check, not a mini feat. Other relevant abilities:

Knowledge (Sexual Position) could give Synergy bonuses to a specific position.

Knowledge (Species Anatomy) could give synergy bonuses to dealing with a species.

Profession (Whore) should offer synergy bonuses to Bluff (Seduction) checks and cetain Sexual Prowess subabilities.

Concentratrion should make it possible to avoid climax, recover from sex, or resist pleasure, except you'd use Wisdom rather than Constitution for some checks.

Escape Artist and Use Rope could be important in some situations.

What do you think?

---

Sounds good this far.

Making up new skills is not something that is not happening (see Wheel of Time or other sub-world products).

Let's keep sex tricks (they are useful, when having sex).

There are too many feats anyway, so I thought that trick-idea was working and original.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kolvar:
Isawa:
I got some problems with your rules:
- How long is a round (if a round in this case is as long as a combat round (6 seconds) most people will have to make a save after about 30 seconds.)

---

I was thinking a round of sex would be about 30 seconds. Combat rounds are -WAY- too short.

quote:

---

- male will be able to have it again as fast as female (eays fix)

---

Good point. I think the 2d6 minutes is still good for men, but women should recover almost immediately... perhaps 1d4 rounds of oversensitivity or such.

quote:

---

- what happens, if someone tortures someone else by withholding the final touch (teasing and teasing, but not allowing to orgasm)

---

Hrm. Perhaps that could be a sex trick... "Frustrating Lover" or such, where you can choose to raise the orgasm DC by 1 (instead of your roll result) and allow your partner to automatically make the save. The DC would slowly climb higher and higher, and the final orgasm would be very powerful(intensity is based on the final DC).

quote:

---

- I sill would call the states of arousal conditions. Although: at the moment, the system has no use for these states.

---

Well, I did note actual status conditions for these at the beginning of the CboUCK document, but I can pull that table from the rules -- it was just in there for further integration.

quote:

---

- the unwilling partners part is very hentai. I do not think, that a lot woman will have an orgasm, if they are raped (with male, it is different, but rape of males is a chapter of its own). Even if they are not raped but only pretend to be willing they will pretend to have an orgasm (and will not get one at all by their partner).

---

Well, that was kind of the point. With the double threshold for rape victims, they're not likely to have an orgasm before their partner does (as they don't have to make a save for twice as long), if they even have one at all. We could also lower the base difficulty of their orgasm save to 5, just to make it even more unlikely for them to orgasm, if you'd prefer.

quote:

---

- a lot of virginal partners may get no orgasm at all. They are hurt more than pleased.

---

Hrm. Good point. Male characters would still get the base DC of 15... female characters (or "receiving" male characters) could have a base DC of 5, or possibly an increased threshold or such.

quote:

---

I like the basic mechanics, (especially, that you may use fortitude or will for the save.)

---

Thanks.

quote:

---

Two additional thought:
- Maybe the threshold only applies to excited partners (therefore unwilling partners will not begin accumulate save-DC-modifications at all.) (to get someone excited could be a function of seduction).

---

Well, I based that off of the fantasy erotica found on sites such as GreyArchive.com or Naked Blades. In many stories, an unwilling character (male or female) usually has his or her body start reacting to the stimulus against his or her will. If this isn't realistic enough (never having had an unwilling partner, I wouldn't know ) I'd be happy to relegate this to the realm of variant rules and work on something a bit different.

quote:

---

- It should be possible to botch a sexual technique check, lowering the DC, raising the threshold or lowering the state again.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by oddjob:
I think Temporary Wisdom damage like Ialdabode said would be the best way to go, as the Saving throws will gradually get more and more difficult.

---

Sexual Prowess (Coitus, Adaptive Lover, Fellatiox2)

And you'd get a +1 synergy bonus to Fellatio.

--------------------

-------

--------------------

-------

Well, I based that off of the fantasy erotica found on sites such as GreyArchive.com or Naked Blades. In many stories, an unwilling character (male or female) usually has his or her body start reacting to the stimulus against his or her will. If this isn't realistic enough (never having had an unwilling partner, I wouldn't know ) I'd be happy to relegate this to the realm of variant rules and work on something a bit different.
_________________________________________

It is very true, this is not realistic, at least not normally, there might be some exceptions, but they are so rare, they woudn't make many stories to write.

And problem with most stories is, that they discribe characters, that are pretty normal to start with, and turn them into drooling sex objects.

I don't like that kind of stories personally. You can't really feel for any character (sex thing or no), if they are played along like some dolls, with no real emotions. Method of 'maddness' should be explaided in some way. And since many stories are written with idea 'it does so, just because I want it to', makes really hard to make rules for those situations.

Those who like some hurting, mostly like it when its part of 'game', game where they can choose their partner/s, control situation. And when it is not freely given, it changes the whole concept of situation.

Really deep-running form of masochism is a form of insanity, and those people don't stop just having hurted sexually.

Then here is ideas, when positive reacting might happen to unwilling parner/s (in magic world):

- Magic (of course)
- Psionic manipulation (kind of magic)
- Cursed (would be some kind of magic=
- Being done by some unhumanly charimatic creature (lesser cases of awe: dragons, elementals, genies, evil outsiders (demons, devils), good outsiders (angels and such), and greater awe: gods/avatars/animal lords/other) (really strong personality might might cause this too [charisma >20].
- Tortured/Manipulated psychologically (expert way) before this sexual encounter by this person (or maybe somebody else, think about 'Stockholm Syndrome', hostage starts emphatising his/her capturer/victimizer, psycological, possible temporal traumas)
- Poisoned/Drugged
- Hidden fetish (something about situation might trigger weird response, if 'right' things come together, might happen, but rare)
- Half-consistant ('I don't want this, but he saved my life, after all', in reality I wanted this, but coudn't let myself think I thought that way, other such.)
- Alien creatures (weird body fluids with drugging effects, empathically infulencing aura, physically overpowering anatomical stumulus, or all of them or something like that. Maybe not magic, but scifi at least, or hentai)
- Asleep (stimilus starts, when still asleep, maybe doesn't know it's real, thinks it someone else, and sense of threat doesn't arise later)
- Angry but Attracted (hates the person through moral or other reasons, but is sexually very much attracted, when finally forced to such encounter, lust wins hate)
- Sexual Insanity (some possibilities here)
- Change of Hearth (wanted it, didn't want it, wanted it after all)
- Cult/Sect History (character is priorly manipulated by some organization/parents/other past event to give themselves into desires of some people, maybe misplaced religious thing)
- Love & Disgust (strong love, but also strong sense of disgust, love sometimes wins, even when put to this kind of test, even giving pleasure, rare, but could happen)
(this situation might also be caused by an obsession of being a virgin or some such thing)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kolvar:
All these effects would cause the person to be at least excited before the real sex starts --> that was my point (thanks for the examples, Zelda)

---

Yes, as long as we remember magic can make creature feel/do anything, at least if is strong enough. Something might be eating you alive, and you might still swim in the total ecstasy (in worst case), so no matter how much something would hurt, it could also be very pleasarable even exiting in the sexual way, no matter how much creature would naturally hate something/how much something would actually hurt.

You probably woudn't want to be:
in Magic Jar
Disintegrated
True Dominated
In Thrall
Burned alive (by fireball or otherwise)

If you got the right poison, you can play with people like dolls. If you don't, no bonus, or there must be real reasons, real feelings, and well worked situation (and there is difference between forced sex/brutal violent rape. A major one, actually.)

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kolvar:
There probably should be some alternative rules for the more hentai and the more natural players (I do not think, that a lot of woman will actually begin to like being raped after a few rounds, even if they submit in the end (do not struggle to reduce the pain)).

---

Well, I would say there's a difference between having an orgasm and enjoying the experience, but the point is taken. I guess the question is, what would be more realistic? Would there be no chance whatsoever for a victim to have any sort of reaction to the situation?

quote:

---

The rounds: I think, it should not be called rounds than, because spells will use the normal terminology and to speak of combat rounds and sex rounds (or similar) will only confuse. The threshold could just grant five times its value in rounds.

---

Hrm. It's not a bad idea, but I'll definitely have to scale down how much the DC changes. Otherwise, after 5 times as many rounds, the DC would be amazingly high to the point where no one could possibly make the save. The Sexual Technique rolls would have to occur sporadically, because there are very few sexual maneuvers that can have a definite effect in only six seconds. Thirty seconds is a much more reasonable time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Kolvar:
All these effects would cause the person to be at least excited before the real sex starts --> that was my point (thanks for the examples, Zelda)

---

For the other thing: I think very few woman at all will get an orgasm, if they are forced to have sex. And than, it should probably by either, because DM or player decide it to be so (or because of some other influence).

By the way, there should probably something like a threshold, over that you loose your lust (like doing it for two hours, and suddenly you loose all interests). Maybe some anti-stimulus, a save to avoid loosing interest, if something happens (just a thought).

Changes:
- Sexual Technique check table expanded to include failed rolls
- Sex changed from rounds to 30-second intervals
- New Sex Trick: Frustrating Lover
- New rules for exhaustion and foreplay
- Revised rules for unwilling partners (including variant for unwilling orgasms)
- Revised rules for virginal partners

quote:

---

Originally posted by Isawa_Sideshow:

One problem with temp Wisdom damage -- clerics of Lust/Love/Sex/Etc., or for that matter any cleric who takes advantage of a sexual Metamagic feat... after a certain amount of sex, they wouldn't even be able to cast orisons any more!

---

That's how sex works. As the individual gets closer to climax concentration becomes difficult, perhaps even impossible. Wis damage is in line with this.

Of course, if you want to set a cleric of, say, Lust, aside from a normal person, just make the Domain granted power a resistance to Wis damage. Perhaps they have a Wis damage reduction of 2 (number off the top of my head). That way they could shrug off most of the effects and stay in control longer, making everything drag out on their end.

[ October 23, 2001: Message edited by: Ialdabode ]

--------------------

I KNOW what you're thinking...

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ialdabode:

That's how sex works. As the individual gets closer to climax concentration becomes difficult, perhaps even impossible. Wis damage is in line with this.

Of course, if you want to set a cleric of, say, Lust, aside from a normal person, just make the Domain granted power a resistance to Wis damage. Perhaps they have a Wis damage reduction of 2 (number off the top of my head). That way they could shrug off most of the effects and stay in control longer, making everything drag out on their end.

---

What about a clerical spell that had to be cast at the moment of orgasm, though? For example, a spell prepared with Aroused Casting is actually cast at orgasm. Even with a DR of 2 for Wis damage, they'd be unable to cast that spell, because they'd hit 0 Wisdom at orgasm and be utterly unable to cast anything.

--------------------